FYI, Shultz did not wrestle Becker on Tuesday night.
I meant schulte not schultz
These ratings are a joke. Absolutely zero credit to SJU. Chris Stevermer, 10-3, returning National qualifer…Honorable Mention. Josh Willaert, 12-2…Honorable Mention. Nick Schular, 10-1…..Honorable Mention. John Wells, convincing victory over Fuenffinger at 125…..Honorable Mention. Dalton Sowers has done great this year at 133, not even mentioned. SJU just beat Augsburg, who had their best lineup on the mat with the exception of Teigen being out. I don’t think Teigen beats Schuler anyways. SJU isn’t even getting a Top 30 team ranking. WHAT A JOKE!!! I really hope that SJU keeps getting underrated, so the ratings makers look like idiots come tournament time.
Dude… while your love for St. Johns is apparent, blasting the rankings makers probably won’t get much accomplished. Think of it this way… how many times has a coach’s rants and arguments helped his team get any more calls? St. John’s is a proud program with a great history and rankings are just rankings. They ultimately are just opinion-based and everything will be decided on the mats anyways. The guys who work on these rankings take a lot of time and effort to produce them and I know I am speaking for a LOT of people, when I say, this is the greatest single source for D3 wrestling.
@ Jacob: if Schulte did not wrestle Becker, then who were the two opponents?
Schulte wrestled 174 and beat Aprahamiam. Becker pinned a backup 165lber
@helbnt I didn’t say he shouldn’t be….if he’s going to stay at 125.
If I was going to pick something to bash the rankings about it wouldn’t be about Giorgio…it would be about Camacho getting bumped from #3 all the way down to contender after only 1 unexpected loss.
My bad, the Hmmmm after the comment threw me off. By the way I agree with you on Camacho, he fell way to far, his losses came to good wrestlers. On another note, I wonder how low fitzenreider is going to go.
Sorry….the ‘Hmmm’ was only because I hadn’t realized Giorgio dropped down from 33….it was meant as ‘Hmmm…interesting’. lol
At 125 I think any of the current top 4 plus Camacho could end up with the title. They’re all studs. If Coleman can get a grip on his weight he’d definitely be in the hunt too.
I wouldn’t expect Fitzenreider to fall far, if at all. It’s tough to gauge off his matches so far this year though. We’ll have to see how he does at Pete Willson and against Bullard next week.
@helbnt camacho is a tremendous wrestler i mean him absolutely ni disrespect, however ur comment about all his losses r to good wrestlers??? his last loss was to a wrestler whos record after his win against camacho is now 13-10 ( not exactly wat i call a stellar record) anytime u have a ranking of top 8 im sorry 2 inform all of u but ur not in the top 8 unless ur expected to beat the wrestlers that arent even ranked in the top 28..however i will say this in my humble opinion, i do believe he dropped way to far back…
if theres a problem with the rankings at 125lbs, take a look at the #5 ranked wrestler & the fact that he lost to the #7 ranked kid 12-5 & lost to the #8 ranked kid 3-1 , yet cause he was an all american last yr hes still ranked in front of 2 kids that hes lost to.. if ur only as good as the last match u wrestle, as they say,then he has 1 win over #8 but lost last time they wrestled.. thats probably why the coaches dont even have him in there top 10
@thedudeabides (lol) 9-7 is convincing huh?? it certainly appears as if wells wrestled well, but by no means was his win convincing.. but tyvm for the comedy, much appreciated :))))
Some weight is given to the guys who placed the previous year. I understand the logic but in some cases it’s hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.
In Frankel’s defense, he did beat Donaldson twice. All 3 of the matches were very close though. Due to the fact that he recently beat Rice…and Rice pinned Donaldson….it’s not easy to rank them.
Fuenffinger’s placement is probably harder to justify. No disrespect intended, but he came in un-ranked and lost his only two non-bye matches at national’s last year. His matches this year alone don’t justify the rank. In my humble opinion of course 😉
Agreed Ken, but I think they look at the body of work also, not just a bad beat, these guys that rank have a tough job ! And Jason, I only mentioned Fitz is because I believe last year he did the same thing, Started at 141 and ended up in the finals at 125. I’m not sure why he would stop at 133 this year unless he is out to extract some revenge. jmo
ur info is completely wrong about frankel & donaldson.. have only met 2 times & both of them were this yr ( 1st time 6-5 frankel at the citrus bowl in florida) ( 2nd time was a dual the very next week & that score was 3-1 donaldson..
jason i would have to disagree with ur logic on fuenffinger in regard to this simple analgy on my part. a 12-5 score this yr in my humble opinion is much more recent then wat frankel did almost 1 yr ago (a 12-5 thumping at the citrus bowl this yr is more indictative of where there at now as to where they were 1 yr ago in my opinion) but ur entitled to ur opinion as well.. maybe we can agree to disagree on that point (lol)
in regard to ur point about frankel beating rice & donaldson getting pinned ur 100% right on that, however on amy given day any wrestler is capable of getting caught & pinned, that doesnt neccsarily mean he was out wrestled… at the time of that pin it was a 0-0 match.. in no way am i taking away from wat rice did on that day.. hes a fabulous talent who deserves the respect he has earned.. hes also a very nice young man to talk to..
in any event all i know 4 sure is that it will all b decided at regionals.. unfortunetly they only take the top 3 wrestlers & as of now u have bewak, rice, frankel, donaldson, rea, & oboyle all competing for those 3 spots,, seems a little unfair to only have 3 of them go.. should make 4 an interesting tournament
You’re right Ken….but I’m only partially to blame…lol. The scorebook has a double entry for the 12/29 Frankel/Donaldson match. I didn’t catch their mistake.
You’re right about their regional…it will be a good one. But don’t they still have the chance of being called up to nationals…or did the new regional format eliminate those committee picks?
@ken I see your line of thought on Fuenffinger but I think the charts would look a lot different if we gave everyone else that same treatment. Scholten would be a good example. When Coleman took Venecia’s spot, Venecia was ranked #3. A few weeks later Scholten tech’s Venecia 22-7. He’s had a pretty great season. I think Gomez beating Camacho is the only reason he’s in the 3 spot….but with Camacho getting bumped down to honorable it doesn’t make much sense to keep Gomez at 3….again in my most humble opinion…lol.
Okay fine…so if I try real hard I can actually find more stuff to argue about with the rankings…lol.
jason my friend, thats a very good question, one that i cant answer im afraid.. im the committee that ur referring to still has those picks, my guess would b that in the past there usually reserved 4 the wrestlers that r in there senior yr, knowing all full well that this is there last shot of going.. provided that there record would indicate they were worthy of the trip.. perhaps someone on this forum is better suited 2 answer ur question jason… and 4 the record i want 2 strongly indicate that i hope no one thinks im attacking frankel, as i do believe hes one hell of a wrestler who warrents consideration by the committee.. my only point was that he had lost 12-5 to fueffinger but yet was 2 spots in front of a wreslter who he had lost to recently & 3 spots ahead of donaldson who he also recently lost to.. i have the utmost respect 4 charlie & his abilities, as he was an all american last yr
meant to write if the committee still has those picks
ur point about venezia is right on cue jason & perhaps thats a strong indication that venecia shouldnt have been in the 3 spot to begin with perhaps… just my thought on that… i also happen to agree with u on ur point about gomez being there cause of his win over camacho… in my opinion camacho will b right there in the thick of things wen it counts most..
@ken I think we’ve done a pretty good job of being respectful. Any one of these studs could take me down and I’ve got 50lbs on them. lol
I’ve enjoyed the conversation. As I said earlier I think there are 5 or 6 guys in these rankings that it’s really hard to put into any order. 125 National’s are gonna be great! I booked my room this week 😉
if the schdule is right it appears that #2 bewak will face #8 donaldson in a dual this saturday.. any thoughts on that match up?
Well…I think it could tie for the biggest upset in the class so far this season….along with Gomez/Camacho.
Donaldson is on a great run and Bewak’s narrow wins over Camacho and Gotto have me doubting him. I have to give Bewak the ‘benefit of the doubt’ but I won’t be surprised if Donaldson gets the win.
Looks like at least Scholten, Heidelberg, Venecia and Coleman should be there.
Ambrocio too…didn’t mean to leave him out.
well i see that camacho took it to fueffinger last night in a big way.. congrats to camacho 4 a strong rebound last night.. well jason u know wat they say, to be the man u have to beat the man & until that happens bewak is still the man. as he holds 2 wins over donaldson from last yr.. as u indicated donaldson is on a very stong run with 13 wins in a row i belive & has 13 pins & 7 majors on the yr to go along with his 25 wins.. should b a very nice match indeed..
Well I would hope to see Camacho back in the top 5 in the next ranking. I haven’t had time to look into who else is going to that open at Loras tomorrow so I don’t know what matches he’ll have there. He never should have been dropped so far though.
@ Ken – You didn’t see the match. It wasn’t a situation where Wells was catching Fuenffinger. Wells was wrestling tough the entire match, and had good position.
@ Bobby – I’m not one to argue over ranking position. However, a complete omission from the rankings altogether is a complete slap in the face. It’s not that difficult to get rated. This team had a lot of solid returning wrestlers coming back from last year. Just looking a the lineup should warrant consideration for the rankings. SJU is a deep team. Based on your theory, what you’re saying is that the ratings makers were so busy, they must have forgotten SJU? Is that it? Give me a break.
Jason, I see in your one post you made mention of Bewacks close matches, if you look back it seems that is how he wrestles, alot of close matches. I know you and ken are very knowledgable about 125 but 149 also seesm to be getting very interesting. I saw that Wilkes has had a change with one ranked kid moving up a weight to 157 and Hartenstine moving in at 149 and moving right up the ladder. I saw he beat ajagbe then ajagbe beat Dierna, Silestri has a loss or two, looks like that could be a fun weight class to watch too.
Preston upsets Scholten in the semi’s this morning 6-5. Venecia didn’t make weight today. Coleman is MIA at the tourney. Internet stream is starting….
@Jason – Your info about Venecia not making weight is not completely accurate. He, Rau and Lewis were not allowed to weigh in because they got to the weigh-in room 1 minute late for the start of weigh-ins. They were late getting there due to snow/car issues, arrived in the building at 8:00 and ran up to the room only to be told that it was 8:01 according to the head ref’s watch and that they could not weigh-in and would be DQ’d from the tournament. This was all despite the fact that they were being escorted to the room by Wheaton’s head coach, and the Elmhurst coach that was with them had a watch that read 7:59.
@clm if that in fact is true & im not at all saying its not, i would say thats gotta b the lamest thing ive heard this yr.. ive heard of rules are rules kinda thing, but (wow) thats really lame.. heres my 2 cents on that 4 wats its worth.. my bigger question would b why were these 3 not on the same bus as there fellow wrestlers were??? never heard of wrestlers traveling by themselves wen there with a team at an away tourny, or was this tourny held on there home turf?
i will even take it 1 step further. if this was the ncaa tournament & these wrestlers had made it 2 the semi final bout & on the 2nd day of weigh ins they were 1 minute late, are u telling me that they would b officially disqualified from the ncaa tourny?
@clm Thanks for updating the info. I didn’t find out about the ‘late arrival’ thing until yesterday. I agree it was a BS call for the head ref to make if it was in fact only 1 minute, especially if there were legitimate reasons for the tardiness.
125 ended up playing out a lot differently than I expected….I’ll just leave it at that.
@ken – I know for a fact that it is all true. The tournament was not held at our school, but Wheaton and Elmhurst are both Chicago area suburbs and Al-Ghoul and Spangler did in fact travel separately. It is something that we allow from time to time if a wrestler lives closer to the tournament venue. They went on there own and were there before the vehicle with the other 3 arrived. You are correct that this was just a matter of enforcing rules for the “rules are rules” argument. This was a matter of enforcing the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. The rule was created so that kids could not get an extra amount of time to be cutting weight and then simply step on the scale when weigh-in are not about to end. That is not what this was about. The head of officiating and the coach on the NCAA rules committee (whose names I will leave out for now) were simply enforcing this because they could and threatened to report the tournament to the NCAA is the 3 wrestlers were allowed to weigh-in. When they were questioned as to why they were not enforcing the rules on the multiple other minor NCAA regulations being broken throughout the gym at any point in time, they became very combative. Do I think the other things that could be seen going on on many other mats should have been enforced? NO. But, if you are going to DQ kids for being 1 minute late to the start of weigh-ins on an arbitrary watch and claim that you have to follow the rules, then you better be enforcing every single other rule to the same degree. There was a groundswell of support from the other coaches at the tournament that came up to us throughout the entire day and told us that what was done to the 3 wrestlers was wrong and that all it did was make the tournament and the kids it impacted suffer.
Sorry for the couple of typos, but I think my point comes across:-)
ty very much 4 clearing that up 4 me clm.. very much appreciate that.. im quite sure i know the people that u are reffering.. i also agree with u 100% on the other rules needing to b followed as well & i would also say i know 4 a fact that there are many of rules that i for one seeing violated every tournament i attend.. the rules im quite sure that ur speaking of although i may sound horrible in saying this, appear 2 be on a much broader scale at the div3 level then they do at the div1 level (just my humble opinion)
RT @d3wrestle: http://t.co/rF1n2VB2 Rankings #8: http://t.co/rrVihYVj
RT @d3wrestle: http://t.co/rF1n2VB2 Rankings #8: http://t.co/rrVihYVj
Giorgio at #1 in 125? Hmmmm.
RT @d3wrestle: http://t.co/rF1n2VB2 Rankings #8: http://t.co/rrVihYVj
RT @d3wrestle: http://t.co/rF1n2VB2 Rankings #8: http://t.co/rrVihYVj
Why wouldnt he be, makes sense.
FYI, Shultz did not wrestle Becker on Tuesday night.
I meant schulte not schultz
These ratings are a joke. Absolutely zero credit to SJU. Chris Stevermer, 10-3, returning National qualifer…Honorable Mention. Josh Willaert, 12-2…Honorable Mention. Nick Schular, 10-1…..Honorable Mention. John Wells, convincing victory over Fuenffinger at 125…..Honorable Mention. Dalton Sowers has done great this year at 133, not even mentioned. SJU just beat Augsburg, who had their best lineup on the mat with the exception of Teigen being out. I don’t think Teigen beats Schuler anyways. SJU isn’t even getting a Top 30 team ranking. WHAT A JOKE!!! I really hope that SJU keeps getting underrated, so the ratings makers look like idiots come tournament time.
Dude… while your love for St. Johns is apparent, blasting the rankings makers probably won’t get much accomplished. Think of it this way… how many times has a coach’s rants and arguments helped his team get any more calls? St. John’s is a proud program with a great history and rankings are just rankings. They ultimately are just opinion-based and everything will be decided on the mats anyways. The guys who work on these rankings take a lot of time and effort to produce them and I know I am speaking for a LOT of people, when I say, this is the greatest single source for D3 wrestling.
@ Jacob: if Schulte did not wrestle Becker, then who were the two opponents?
Schulte wrestled 174 and beat Aprahamiam. Becker pinned a backup 165lber
@helbnt I didn’t say he shouldn’t be….if he’s going to stay at 125.
If I was going to pick something to bash the rankings about it wouldn’t be about Giorgio…it would be about Camacho getting bumped from #3 all the way down to contender after only 1 unexpected loss.
My bad, the Hmmmm after the comment threw me off. By the way I agree with you on Camacho, he fell way to far, his losses came to good wrestlers. On another note, I wonder how low fitzenreider is going to go.
Sorry….the ‘Hmmm’ was only because I hadn’t realized Giorgio dropped down from 33….it was meant as ‘Hmmm…interesting’. lol
At 125 I think any of the current top 4 plus Camacho could end up with the title. They’re all studs. If Coleman can get a grip on his weight he’d definitely be in the hunt too.
I wouldn’t expect Fitzenreider to fall far, if at all. It’s tough to gauge off his matches so far this year though. We’ll have to see how he does at Pete Willson and against Bullard next week.
@helbnt camacho is a tremendous wrestler i mean him absolutely ni disrespect, however ur comment about all his losses r to good wrestlers??? his last loss was to a wrestler whos record after his win against camacho is now 13-10 ( not exactly wat i call a stellar record) anytime u have a ranking of top 8 im sorry 2 inform all of u but ur not in the top 8 unless ur expected to beat the wrestlers that arent even ranked in the top 28..however i will say this in my humble opinion, i do believe he dropped way to far back…
if theres a problem with the rankings at 125lbs, take a look at the #5 ranked wrestler & the fact that he lost to the #7 ranked kid 12-5 & lost to the #8 ranked kid 3-1 , yet cause he was an all american last yr hes still ranked in front of 2 kids that hes lost to.. if ur only as good as the last match u wrestle, as they say,then he has 1 win over #8 but lost last time they wrestled.. thats probably why the coaches dont even have him in there top 10
@thedudeabides (lol) 9-7 is convincing huh?? it certainly appears as if wells wrestled well, but by no means was his win convincing.. but tyvm for the comedy, much appreciated :))))
Some weight is given to the guys who placed the previous year. I understand the logic but in some cases it’s hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.
In Frankel’s defense, he did beat Donaldson twice. All 3 of the matches were very close though. Due to the fact that he recently beat Rice…and Rice pinned Donaldson….it’s not easy to rank them.
Fuenffinger’s placement is probably harder to justify. No disrespect intended, but he came in un-ranked and lost his only two non-bye matches at national’s last year. His matches this year alone don’t justify the rank. In my humble opinion of course 😉
Agreed Ken, but I think they look at the body of work also, not just a bad beat, these guys that rank have a tough job ! And Jason, I only mentioned Fitz is because I believe last year he did the same thing, Started at 141 and ended up in the finals at 125. I’m not sure why he would stop at 133 this year unless he is out to extract some revenge. jmo
ur info is completely wrong about frankel & donaldson.. have only met 2 times & both of them were this yr ( 1st time 6-5 frankel at the citrus bowl in florida) ( 2nd time was a dual the very next week & that score was 3-1 donaldson..
jason i would have to disagree with ur logic on fuenffinger in regard to this simple analgy on my part. a 12-5 score this yr in my humble opinion is much more recent then wat frankel did almost 1 yr ago (a 12-5 thumping at the citrus bowl this yr is more indictative of where there at now as to where they were 1 yr ago in my opinion) but ur entitled to ur opinion as well.. maybe we can agree to disagree on that point (lol)
in regard to ur point about frankel beating rice & donaldson getting pinned ur 100% right on that, however on amy given day any wrestler is capable of getting caught & pinned, that doesnt neccsarily mean he was out wrestled… at the time of that pin it was a 0-0 match.. in no way am i taking away from wat rice did on that day.. hes a fabulous talent who deserves the respect he has earned.. hes also a very nice young man to talk to..
in any event all i know 4 sure is that it will all b decided at regionals.. unfortunetly they only take the top 3 wrestlers & as of now u have bewak, rice, frankel, donaldson, rea, & oboyle all competing for those 3 spots,, seems a little unfair to only have 3 of them go.. should make 4 an interesting tournament
You’re right Ken….but I’m only partially to blame…lol. The scorebook has a double entry for the 12/29 Frankel/Donaldson match. I didn’t catch their mistake.
You’re right about their regional…it will be a good one. But don’t they still have the chance of being called up to nationals…or did the new regional format eliminate those committee picks?
@ken I see your line of thought on Fuenffinger but I think the charts would look a lot different if we gave everyone else that same treatment. Scholten would be a good example. When Coleman took Venecia’s spot, Venecia was ranked #3. A few weeks later Scholten tech’s Venecia 22-7. He’s had a pretty great season. I think Gomez beating Camacho is the only reason he’s in the 3 spot….but with Camacho getting bumped down to honorable it doesn’t make much sense to keep Gomez at 3….again in my most humble opinion…lol.
Okay fine…so if I try real hard I can actually find more stuff to argue about with the rankings…lol.
jason my friend, thats a very good question, one that i cant answer im afraid.. im the committee that ur referring to still has those picks, my guess would b that in the past there usually reserved 4 the wrestlers that r in there senior yr, knowing all full well that this is there last shot of going.. provided that there record would indicate they were worthy of the trip.. perhaps someone on this forum is better suited 2 answer ur question jason… and 4 the record i want 2 strongly indicate that i hope no one thinks im attacking frankel, as i do believe hes one hell of a wrestler who warrents consideration by the committee.. my only point was that he had lost 12-5 to fueffinger but yet was 2 spots in front of a wreslter who he had lost to recently & 3 spots ahead of donaldson who he also recently lost to.. i have the utmost respect 4 charlie & his abilities, as he was an all american last yr
meant to write if the committee still has those picks
ur point about venezia is right on cue jason & perhaps thats a strong indication that venecia shouldnt have been in the 3 spot to begin with perhaps… just my thought on that… i also happen to agree with u on ur point about gomez being there cause of his win over camacho… in my opinion camacho will b right there in the thick of things wen it counts most..
@ken I think we’ve done a pretty good job of being respectful. Any one of these studs could take me down and I’ve got 50lbs on them. lol
I’ve enjoyed the conversation. As I said earlier I think there are 5 or 6 guys in these rankings that it’s really hard to put into any order. 125 National’s are gonna be great! I booked my room this week 😉
if the schdule is right it appears that #2 bewak will face #8 donaldson in a dual this saturday.. any thoughts on that match up?
Well…I think it could tie for the biggest upset in the class so far this season….along with Gomez/Camacho.
Donaldson is on a great run and Bewak’s narrow wins over Camacho and Gotto have me doubting him. I have to give Bewak the ‘benefit of the doubt’ but I won’t be surprised if Donaldson gets the win.
For anyone who wasn’t aware…there should be some good championship matches at the Pete Willson tourney tomorrow. They’ll be streaming them starting at 12:15 Central time here: http://www2.wheaton.edu/learnres/mediares/WETN/wetn_livewindow/WETN-TV.html
Looks like at least Scholten, Heidelberg, Venecia and Coleman should be there.
Ambrocio too…didn’t mean to leave him out.
well i see that camacho took it to fueffinger last night in a big way.. congrats to camacho 4 a strong rebound last night.. well jason u know wat they say, to be the man u have to beat the man & until that happens bewak is still the man. as he holds 2 wins over donaldson from last yr.. as u indicated donaldson is on a very stong run with 13 wins in a row i belive & has 13 pins & 7 majors on the yr to go along with his 25 wins.. should b a very nice match indeed..
Well I would hope to see Camacho back in the top 5 in the next ranking. I haven’t had time to look into who else is going to that open at Loras tomorrow so I don’t know what matches he’ll have there. He never should have been dropped so far though.
@ Ken – You didn’t see the match. It wasn’t a situation where Wells was catching Fuenffinger. Wells was wrestling tough the entire match, and had good position.
@ Bobby – I’m not one to argue over ranking position. However, a complete omission from the rankings altogether is a complete slap in the face. It’s not that difficult to get rated. This team had a lot of solid returning wrestlers coming back from last year. Just looking a the lineup should warrant consideration for the rankings. SJU is a deep team. Based on your theory, what you’re saying is that the ratings makers were so busy, they must have forgotten SJU? Is that it? Give me a break.
Jason, I see in your one post you made mention of Bewacks close matches, if you look back it seems that is how he wrestles, alot of close matches. I know you and ken are very knowledgable about 125 but 149 also seesm to be getting very interesting. I saw that Wilkes has had a change with one ranked kid moving up a weight to 157 and Hartenstine moving in at 149 and moving right up the ladder. I saw he beat ajagbe then ajagbe beat Dierna, Silestri has a loss or two, looks like that could be a fun weight class to watch too.
Preston upsets Scholten in the semi’s this morning 6-5. Venecia didn’t make weight today. Coleman is MIA at the tourney. Internet stream is starting….
@Jason – Your info about Venecia not making weight is not completely accurate. He, Rau and Lewis were not allowed to weigh in because they got to the weigh-in room 1 minute late for the start of weigh-ins. They were late getting there due to snow/car issues, arrived in the building at 8:00 and ran up to the room only to be told that it was 8:01 according to the head ref’s watch and that they could not weigh-in and would be DQ’d from the tournament. This was all despite the fact that they were being escorted to the room by Wheaton’s head coach, and the Elmhurst coach that was with them had a watch that read 7:59.
@clm if that in fact is true & im not at all saying its not, i would say thats gotta b the lamest thing ive heard this yr.. ive heard of rules are rules kinda thing, but (wow) thats really lame.. heres my 2 cents on that 4 wats its worth.. my bigger question would b why were these 3 not on the same bus as there fellow wrestlers were??? never heard of wrestlers traveling by themselves wen there with a team at an away tourny, or was this tourny held on there home turf?
i will even take it 1 step further. if this was the ncaa tournament & these wrestlers had made it 2 the semi final bout & on the 2nd day of weigh ins they were 1 minute late, are u telling me that they would b officially disqualified from the ncaa tourny?
@clm Thanks for updating the info. I didn’t find out about the ‘late arrival’ thing until yesterday. I agree it was a BS call for the head ref to make if it was in fact only 1 minute, especially if there were legitimate reasons for the tardiness.
125 ended up playing out a lot differently than I expected….I’ll just leave it at that.
@ken – I know for a fact that it is all true. The tournament was not held at our school, but Wheaton and Elmhurst are both Chicago area suburbs and Al-Ghoul and Spangler did in fact travel separately. It is something that we allow from time to time if a wrestler lives closer to the tournament venue. They went on there own and were there before the vehicle with the other 3 arrived. You are correct that this was just a matter of enforcing rules for the “rules are rules” argument. This was a matter of enforcing the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. The rule was created so that kids could not get an extra amount of time to be cutting weight and then simply step on the scale when weigh-in are not about to end. That is not what this was about. The head of officiating and the coach on the NCAA rules committee (whose names I will leave out for now) were simply enforcing this because they could and threatened to report the tournament to the NCAA is the 3 wrestlers were allowed to weigh-in. When they were questioned as to why they were not enforcing the rules on the multiple other minor NCAA regulations being broken throughout the gym at any point in time, they became very combative. Do I think the other things that could be seen going on on many other mats should have been enforced? NO. But, if you are going to DQ kids for being 1 minute late to the start of weigh-ins on an arbitrary watch and claim that you have to follow the rules, then you better be enforcing every single other rule to the same degree. There was a groundswell of support from the other coaches at the tournament that came up to us throughout the entire day and told us that what was done to the 3 wrestlers was wrong and that all it did was make the tournament and the kids it impacted suffer.
Sorry for the couple of typos, but I think my point comes across:-)
ty very much 4 clearing that up 4 me clm.. very much appreciate that.. im quite sure i know the people that u are reffering.. i also agree with u 100% on the other rules needing to b followed as well & i would also say i know 4 a fact that there are many of rules that i for one seeing violated every tournament i attend.. the rules im quite sure that ur speaking of although i may sound horrible in saying this, appear 2 be on a much broader scale at the div3 level then they do at the div1 level (just my humble opinion)
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